Rory McHarg and Bret Miller’s easy short documentary A Two Hearted Tale (2024) revolves around a world-renowned beer, with a small-town history and a very personal story. It premiered at the Indy Film Festival, and has toured many more festivals across the US and the world. But this isn’t just a film about beverages.

Our writer Victoria Luxford discussed with the two filmmakers the origins of the project, obscure stories that exist on the fringes of society, types of storytelling, loosening inhibitions, making a film about azrt, design, family and community, and much more.

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Victoria Luxford – What brought you to this unusual little story?

Bret Miller – I’ve long been a fan of craft beer. The culture, the taste, the artistry. I’d long been searching for a brewery to partner with, but each project fell apart before we even got started. Years later, I got a call from Davis Nixon, a long-time collaborator. We had been working on a mini-doc on the mixing of Marvin Gaye’s What’s Going On?, and Davis was hearing rumblings on a film on Bell’s beer. I knew Rory from other projects, so we immediately got to talking. We both wanted the same things out of the film, things that tripped up potential breweries in the past. We wanted to highlight the people, the art, and where they intersect. Covid certainly slowed us down, but we were off and running after that.

Rory McHarg – I’d moved to Michigan from New York and was looking for a local IPA. I had worked with Bret on some commercial film projects and we got talking about the Two Hearted Ale and Bell’s Brewery. I also have a design and branding background so was fascinated by the fact this brewery had put trout on its label. I thought let’s find out why, and so it began.

VL – As discussed in one of the chapters, many of the subjects in the film are somewhat eccentric. Was it difficult to get them to open up, or stay on topic?

BM – Working with any subject, eccentric or not, can be challenging simply because interviews are not a natural setting for most people. The fortunate thing about our film is that we were looking for the subjects to go off on tangents. We wanted them to take us on a journey through their creative and tactical process. Going into this doc with a tentative plan meant that we could ultimately go in any direction we liked. That only happens if your subject is free to get a little off-track when the time is right.

RMH – That’s why we got a great editor right? To Bret’s point, we knew our subjects were going to go off on wild tangents and we leaned into that, the process meant deciding which tangents were great to leave in the film while maintaining a narrative. Also this sort of brought the chapter idea into fruition because we had a lot of themes to explore and the chapters gave structure to all the tangential story points.

VL – One of the lines that stood out for me was “Isn’t it always the case, obstacles are what change the course of things”. Did Larry Bell’s refusal to talk to you about the brewery he created change the course of your film?

BM – To an extent, yes. But, at the same time, this isn’t a film about Larry Bell. It’s about art and design. Family and community. Larry is a part of it, just like Bell’s Brewery is a part of it. But this was never going to be some cheap hit piece or an antagonistic scheme. We wanted to talk to Larry because we wanted his perspective on the artistic choices organically made while Bell’s was in the early stages of life. He declined, so we moved on. Rory and I respect his decision and wish him the best.

RMH – Totally, The film is about fatherhood and friendship at the end of the day, the beer, the brewery and the label is just our way into the story. We initially set out to make a film about Lad and Larry’s friendship and the decisions around making the label designs, Larry wasn’t open to being part of that, so we pivoted.

VL – How did the film’s soundtrack come to life? It sets the tone so well without being intrusive.

BM – So glad you asked about the soundtrack because I love the soundtrack! Zak Engel, our composer, absolutely crushed the music for the film. He had previously worked for Rory, and I knew right off the bat that he was perfect for this project. It became a bit of a dance between myself, Rory, Zak, and Nikki Finn, our editor, to piecemeal different ideas to find the right tone and feel. For me, I was quickly inspired by the soft, melodic works of Michael Giacchino and The Newton brothers, but we all knew that we wanted strings, woodwinds. Earthy sounds, natural sounds. For my part, I pushed hard to keep both the happy, nostalgic theme at Ladislav’s house and the soft sounds of the musician over the music bed itself. It was important to me to show that Lad and his friends looked back on their time working together as one of joy and peace, not of resentment or anger. As for the soft taps you hear, well, this is a movie about art! I wanted to remind the audience that every piece of this film is a work of art, created by a real person to be enjoyed by real, everyday people.

RMH –: Yes, Zak is a genius, multi-instrumentalist. Nikki Finn the editor really helped drive the sound, she was hugely inspired by Nick Drake, whom I fell in love with during the process. As a director I’m not musically trained so I tend to think in feelings or broad strokes, not instruments, I wanted something that felt Americana, personified Kalamazoo pace of life and Lad’s demeanor.

VL – Along with nostalgia, one of the themes I noticed in the film was the love of process, be it fishing, art, or brewing. Did you feel a connection to this as filmmakers?

BM – Short answer, for me, is yes. Filmmaking is so hard. It’s gruelling, which is why most ‘filmmakers’ talk about making films instead of actually doing it. You gotta love the process just as much, if not more, as the final product. And you certainly have to love it more than the red carpets and accolades because that simply poisons any artist. The journey is the reward, the artwork is the reward.

RMH – One hundred per cent! I think when you look at the tool’s Lad uses to make his art, it’s archaic. Most of us are trying to make things as quick as possible because they are driven by a budget or commercial timeline (or a studio). This film was made independently, self funded, with no influence from the Brewery or brand. Hence we could really explore multi-media using 8mm film, hand drawn animations, processes that are slow but full of hand touches and character.

VL – Bell’s Brewery was sold at the end of 2021 to an international corporation. Is the type of localised lore explored in A Two Hearted Tale dying out in America? Is there still room for an eccentric with a dream?

BM – That’s a good question, one that many people more qualified than me could answer. It’s hard out there, we all see it. Post-Covid, there seems to be an influx of companies and corporations forgoing tact in favour of showcasing their greed for the world to see. And dolts in their mother’s basements are celebrating it. That said, I really do believe in creativity and community. That’s where lore comes from, really. There are people all over the world who seek our interesting art, interesting food or drink. As long as people are drawn to a community, which we’re biologically predisposed to, then I do believe that organic eccentricities will have a place to thrive.

RMH – Yeah, really good question. Almost impossible to answer with any certainty. However this is one of the things I think filmmakers, especially documentarians, are great at. Like investigative journalists, we are looking for obscure stories that exist on the fringes of society and we try to bring those stories to wider audiences because they are fucken’ interesting, and yeah eccentrics give us a license to escape. But for sure these lores are dying out in the mainstream because we crave the sensationalists.

VL – Bret mentioned in his director’s statement that craft beer has a special place in his heart, being connected to the early years of his relationship with his wife. Did working on this film change that affection in any way?

BM – If anything, it strengthened it! The film is about a lot of things, but the theme of nostalgia is prevalent throughout. It was very special for me to work on this film, often reminding me of the days when my wife and I would try out different Bell’s beers when we barely had enough money to survive. Those really were special moments for the two of us, and working on this film actually brought more of that out!

RMH – Haha, beer has been that great social binder for centuries. After a couple our inhibitions are loosened, hence we meet people, make new relationships and strengthen others. And of course there is that fine line between how much to consume before things get wonky. This film for me was different, my father was a fly fisherman in New Zealand who passed away in 2019, I saw many similarities in Ladislav to my dad, and beer was always a bonding communal part of our relationship.

VL – At one point, while looking at the label, Ladislav Hanka says “I could have done a whole lot worse for what I’m remembered for”. As filmmakers, what would you like to be remembered for?

BM – Whew, this is a big one! No holds bar today. I’ve never really thought about that before, but I guess I’d like to be remembered for respecting the process. For being a good collaborator, and for putting out brave work. I hate when films are just made for the sake of making them, or films that spend all this time and money without saying really anything at all. I want people to look back and see my artistry, understand my point of view. That sounds like a dream to me.

RMH – Similarly to Bret, filmmaking is the most refined and controlled form of storytelling we have. Worrying about who will watch this? and what will the box office take? are not really what I want to be remembered for. If anything I’d like to be remembered for making things that moved people, made them think deeply about something they never thought mattered.

VL – What’s next for you both? Are there any projects you’re working on?

BM – There’s a ton of projects in the works for me. I generally work in narrative, writing and directing. So, I’m doing a lot of pitching, a lot of developing. Hopefully, it’s something scary, horror is my passion. Recently, my team produced a narrative whodunnit feature film called Hayseed, starring Kathryn Morris in her return to acting after a hiatus. There are some more documentaries I’d love to tackle, both independently and with Rory. We work really well together, and there are some stories out there that are just made for us to tackle together. Time will tell!

RMH – You know what, we’d love to make a series about artists and breweries who have created some of the most controversial labels in the last 20 years. Because the art of the beer label has its roots in counter culture, this is a format (a beer can), where we say something controversial and spark a conversation, we can have a laugh at an image that questions our societal norms in a non judgemental way.

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Rory and Bret are pictured at the top of this interview (left and right, respectively). The other two images are stills of A Two Hearted Tale.